THE GREAT A VS B SCHEME BUILD SEQUENCE DEBATE

Bill ,
What are your thoughts on the build sheets some Sc/Rambler owners are finding ?
I spoke to one guy , he said his build sheet had a 1968 date . Well before the door tag
dates you researched ...
His car was not and early one ...
Food for thought ...........
Thank you very much for sharing your information

Bob

Bill's reply :
theamcguy said...
The build sheets would have been prepared well in advance of the car being built on the assembly line. The build sheet contains the info as to what parts go on the car and would be prepared as the assembly line sequence is being set up well in advance of the car moving down the line.

The only real indicator of the date the car was built is the VIN and the Door Tag # (EXXXXXX) If you can , send the VIN and Door Tag Info on the car(s) with the 1968 build sheets.
February 11, 2009 7:35 PM

Note: Bill Strobel has put a comment . To see new info quicker I will put his thoughts here.
older info is below ..

New Comment Posted by Bill
theamcguy said...

I have found the body number to build date info and here is what I know:

According to the build tags SC/R production started very late Jan 1969

The highest VIN I have recorded is 305437/E106335
That puts the end of the SC/R production around very late May 1969 (approximately maybe early June if a higher VIN is found)According to the my data

I would say that the vast majority of the B Scheme cars were produced between the 3rd week of March through the last week of April 1969

Hope this helps, Bill

Bob replies:
Yes Bill , this is really interesting and highly appreciated information .
I was going to ask you the build dates , and you beat me to it .
I'll post an article I found that every one can use to estimate their cars build date ...

theamcguy said...

I have been tracking SC/R VINs for years.

Here is what I know:
From VIN 226626-248027 A Scheme
249377 First B Scheme

I have recorded 249377-268241 Mostly B Scheme except 250853, 257474, 258419, 264086, 265028, 266082 , 268252-305437 (highest SC/R VIN I have)
Vast majority A Schemes with a few scattered Bs throughout the run.

No pattern with respect to Paint Code identifying A or B Scheme.
Only 20% of the cars in my registry are B Scheme. If that pattern holds out for the entire run then of the 1512 cars only 302 cars were Bs.

This might make sense as the Bs are a lot rarer than the As. Common wisdom holds the Bs as 1/3 of the run but in actuality they show up a lot less then that at shows and in my Registry.

The only real pattern for the B Scheme occurs between VINs 249377-268241. Of the 23 cars that fall in this VIN run 17 are B Schemes, or 74%.

If that pattern holds out then most of the Bs would have been produced during the time period of Body #s E070944-E094960

(I do not have access to my list of Body #s to dates for the 1969 Americans. Somebody can look that up and assign the time period.)
January 29, 2009 8:24 PM posted by Bill

Thank you for that Bill...Very interesting
Bob

Previous posts below :

Reagam said...
Hey Bob, I'm in a real quandry and hope you can help or point me in the direction of help`` Someone recently mentioned that there were three separate build sequences for these cars and that in each build period there was a strict adherence to painting the car by either scheme a or b and then only in the third sequence was there a mix of schemes. They also claim that there was a 6 week interlude between the first and second periods or the start of one to the start of the next to gather up parts to make the next run. They further claim that the door codes- body sequence # and paint codes as well as the vin points to these distinct build/paint scheme periods and that 'Special'applies to the B code second period cars ( I guess during the mixed period too ) This all sounds like caca. Where's the documentation showing this? Thanks
Steve Avery

Hi Steve
I'll leave this for the readers to share there ideas on this .
Then add what might be the most accurate likley sequence of how this was ...
Which will be up to you to decide the answer ...

What I know is:There is no known to exist data from AMC/ Chrysler or HURST with the serial number build sequence , etc .
I spoke to Dave Landrith and he was going to try again to get those numbers . He just hit a brick wall to where those records went like his previous attempt .
Dave also still has a contact with the son of a former AMC official .Who is at Chrysler now ..
Dave was the (guy) President of Hurst Detroit back then .

I'll put more info up that has been discussed already and that we can weed more
facts as time goes by .
Thanks for the Question

Bob

NOTE: Info here is from talking to Dave Landrith . You can find more about Dave
on this blog in the archives ...

Note also: I believe Dave might of not remembered the quantity of "PROMO" cars built.
Dave stated 30 Promo cars were built and 15 went to H.L.

Talking to H. L Shahan he remembered Seven cars he did a few things to for the Orange County Promo show .(So that makes the number 30 of Promo's built be a question mark ).
I have an archive for H.L also ..

NOTE NOTE SC/RAMBLER Specific
This is Minutia on Steroids . Sc/Rambler specific : From Sc/Rambler's Godfather !
Note:We believe Dave might of been mistaken on the QTY. of Promo cars built ..

There were 30 Promo cars built on the "third Floor" AMC factory in Kenosha .
Some of these were shown in Ohio , 15 were shipped to H L Shahan in California .
These 15 were brought to Orange County Speedway ...Over 200 press agents showed !!
The cars were drag raced and drivers given their time slips and prizes . A road course was set up allso.
What a Gala affair that must of been . Food , drinks , lighting up the rear tires !
I love the smell of burning rubber in the morning !
Dave plus H L Shahan were at this event ...

Hurst was responsible to put the hurst added Items on the Sc's . They added the pin stripes
and decals . They did not paint the cars ...( third floor AMC building in Kenosha ...)
Will dig for more info on the other parts the hurst team installed , Hood scoops definitely .
Tachs , head rests . Hurst Shifter ...

This is from Dave , The Tachometers were Sun ST-635 ...
The Hood Scoops were TWO different sizes . They were made in Canada . In rene' Quebec .
Their was a claim , that we're shooting down , about three hood scoop sizes . Wrong..

Looking forward to keeping in contact , as this is a really great source ...
Dave has many people he's met through the years , and has made many friends along the way.

Thanks for reading
This Blog will not self destruct ! You are experiencing the Sc/Rambler Hammer Lane !

Bob Rascoe

Note: Door Tag:
Door Tag:
Note: was informed the paint code "spec" or "special "tags . Are first 500 builds
Info Courtesy of Walter Miller

Q&A Area exerpt on the build sdequence "theory"
Q, were the Sc/Rambler made in small batches or did they get built all at once ??
A: Incomplete Data , We know the first 30 were taken as Promo cars . Papers show 500 were to be built . But business wise , our thoughts are that they cranked them all out as one batch.
We're working at getting this resolved once and for all .

Q. How were the Sc/r's distributed ?? . Kenosha to train . And ?

Mike Lewis Take on the production run :

"MY TWO CENTS : The SC/RAMBLERS were made on the days that white paint was being used. Only a few at a time 10, 20, 25, or 50 who knows ? The hurst shop did the ''A'' or ''B'' thing. We have the problem of the a to b and b to a changes and I think a lot of owners know which and are not saying. I know where sc/rambler #1 is but that is about it."

Bob thought : Hmmm
Note: The cars had red under the white paint . How far was the red ? the whole car?
So off Mikes opinion . They might of been set up for red cars did a run of them .
The white paint day they grabbed the red SC/Rambler's and masked them for the white paint ????Thoughts any one ?? More info on the red comming soon.

Peter Stillo Note:

"I’m thinking at one point they must have built both schemes at the same time. That’s why they needed to call out which cars were getting (A) paint cut in.

If I remember right I thought I have seen both (A) and (B) paint cars with an 88A door tag. So I don’t think the door tag code has anything to do with the paint. But they could have been repainted a different scheme over the years.

This could take some work to sort out. Maybe some of the guys with original paint can share there door tag code and sequence number.





Bob Reply thoughts :
A few door tags have been moved around I know for a fact ...

A lot of the guys want to say their car was an "A" scheme . So that would be tricky to call .

Also I'm almost thinking they were A and B shemes from the start !?
The spec and special code is interesting also .
Hmmm,
They intended on making 500 cars . So it might make sense that those door tags were made for that amount of cars .

So where did they say to make 1512 instead of 500 ?? And put the tags that were readily available . So inturn that says they did not wait for tags to me made .
They built with what was available . Or could be procured quickly ..

So , that may be why there are two scoops , two seat belt hangers , and two differant head rests dyes and vinyl ...

Is that the break down we are looking for on the builds ...??
And was there a lag to get these "extra" hurst items ??

WOW
Thanks for the discussion
Bob


Lets keep working on this !!

Bob