Friday, April 25, 2008

Sc/R GROUP 19 FACTORY SPEED PARTS/MODS


This section will be Group 19 Factory recomended vendor and parts .
Everything should be true to the era ...
I've heard of one guy who has a group 19 motor w/vendor machine work(AMC reccomended )
How rare is that , could be the only one ?

Note : Jim McKee's Car (may be the only surviving group 19 that has had this much work done)
Rare , you think ??
Jim says ,
The engine was built at NELSON Competition. The heads were ported by ODDY and have Manley 2.100/1.625 valves with the exhaust crossover filled with aluminum. The intake is a very early R-4B from the "Group 19" catalog purchased before I even received my original SC/ Rambler. It is one of two I have seen without the "Edelbrock" logo cast in. It does have the 448 5728 cast in behind the carb flange. The distributor is a flat cap Mallory with the Mallory Voltmaster coil that was also ordered from the local dealer before the car came in. The Allman and Roberts valve covers are new from Herman Lewis. The rebuilt carb is the Holley 780 3310-AAS carb purchased in 1969. You can see why I like the engine! Regards, JIm

Reply : Yes , that is amazing to have had done and still be here . Cool as cool can be !!

Topic : Group 19 List


Group 19 parts that fit SC/Ramblers;
448 6719 Cam and kit (302 advertized duration hydraulic lifter)
448 8475 Blocked heat riser manifold gasket
448 5728 Edelbrock R-4B intake manifold
448 5730 Holley 950 three barrel carburetor
448 7900 Mallory YL flat cap distributor w/o tach drive
448 7901 Mallory YL flat cap distributor w/ tach drive
448 8059 Mallory Voltmaster coil
448 6228 Edelbrock Crossram STR-11 intake manifold* (std. on SS AMXes w/ 2-660 Holley #4224)
448 5742 Delco capacitor discharge distributor and ignition box
448 7989 Crane Gold roller rockers with studs
4486997 Detroit locker differential
448 5741 Aviad oil pan
448 5726 & 448 5727 Doug's headers w/ removeable tube for starter removal
Rear gear sets;
448 5749 3.73
448 5750 3.91
320 8546 4.10
320 9854 4.44
448 6587 5.00
*No carburetors listed in 68 to 72 parts book for crossram.
Edelbrock also offered a UR-18 tunnel ram w/ 2-1150 Holleys # 6214, but there was no AM part number for these parts.

Topic : Group 19 Power partsNote : I'm including this group as , My personal belief among owners is that original machine work by AMC reccomended vendors . And factory original group 19 parts should be accepted . This type of dedicated work done on the car really needs to be recognised in sanctioned events .Even if only one exists . Might as well make trophys out now (hopefully)http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k25/underdog57/Jim006.jpgNote : This from Muscle Car Review :Muscle Car Review magazine, July 1990 Group 19 by Barbara Hillick. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- AMC high-performance parts were second to none. When anyone mentions that they collect AMC musclecars, the common response is laughter from Chevy, Ford or Mopar owners. After all, Rambler had built an image through the years based on economy and reliability. When 1968 rolled around, AMC finally gave other performance cars more serious competition with the AMX and Javelin. When introduced in 1969, the SC/Rambler ran a 14.3 quarter straight off the showroom floor. Finally, with the introduction of the Rebel Machine in 1970 and the SC/36O in 1971, AMC showed that it had more than economy on its mind. The basis for all performance cars is the parts available to make the cars stand out from the crowd. Parts like the Cross Ram were available for Chevy and Ford owners. Mopar owners had the Hemi engine, Six Packs, and a few other items to make their cars move on down the road. Somehow, no one seems to think of AMC as having performance parts. That's where they're wrong! AMC took its first step into the performance market in 1966 when it introduced a totally new engine. This eight-cylinder 290 engine offered all kinds of performance possibilities to AMC owners when it was offered in a total of 625 cars in 1966. Available with either a two- or four-barrel carburetor, this block became the basis for future AMC performance engines. In 1967, the 290 was joined by a 343 engine. In February 1968, the highly desirable 390 joined the lineup. AMC V-8 engines are unique because they are based on one basic block design. They have the same external dimensions and the 304 (used in 1970 and up), 343 (1967 through 1969), 360 (1970 and up), 390 (1968-70) and 401 (1971 and up) were obtained by boring and stroking the original 290 block. The major change between the engines was a deck height of 9.165 inches in 1966-'69 and the change in deck height to 9.208 inches in 1970. These differences affected the intake and push rod interchangeability. With some minor internal block changes, such as thicker webbing, AMC had some performance engines on its hands. Just by changing to dog leg heads in 1970, performance was increased. Unfortunately, by 1972 the compression ratio was lowered to meet emission standards and the performance capabilities of the engines dropped [[not as much as normally assumed]]. AMC reacted to its new 290 engine by coming up with some interesting parts to make AMC more competitive in the performance market. These parts have become known to AMC owners as ''Group 19'' parts. This term is used simply because of the way that AMC organized its parts books. Group 1 was engine parts, Group 2 was cooling, Group 3 was electrical, etc. Group 19 was the section devoted to high-performance equipment. The first company to offer an AMC performance part was Edelbrock. The R4B high-rise aluminum four-barrel intake manifold (part number 448 5729 for 1967-'69 and number 448 8409 for 1970-up) took its place in AMC history. These intakes were sold through the dealers with the part number cast in them and were also offered withoutthe part number through Edelbrock. The R4B high-rise aluminum four-barrel manifold has it's roots in Group 19 in AMC history. These intakes were sold through dealers with the part number cast in them and were also offered without the part number thru Edelbrock. If the R4B wasn't good enough, Edelbrock offered a Cross Ram intake, the Edelbrock STR 11. This dual-carbed, two- piece intake was made of aluminum and had a removable top half. A few hundred were made with the AM part number 448 6228 stamped in them for 1967-'69 and 448 8411 for 1970 and up. Edelbrock also offered them without the part number stamped on them. AMC offered only the intake and linkage, so the carb selection was up to the owner, but anything over about 650 cfm didn't work particularly well. No air cleaner assembly was offered and no provisions were made for the heater hose and control, The intake also did not have an inlet for the brake booster line and didn't have enough vacuum for a power brake unit. These intakes were used on all SS/AMXS. The Edelbrock STR11 Cross Ram intake is a dual-carbed, two-piece intake made of aluminum which featured a removable top half. What good is a new intake without a new carb? AMC offered an optional Holley three-barrel carb with vacuum secondaries to replace the Carter AFB. The carb was used for all years and was available as part number 448 5730 or with the R4B and the carb as a set (1967/69 448 5731 and 1970/up 448 8410). The heat passages needed some work before bolting on the intake because the exhaust gases passed under the intake. This warmed the incoming fuel and operated the automatic choke. Unfortunately, warm fuel in performance driving (i.e. drag racing) doesn't help getting to the end first. To alleviate the problem, AMC offered a special intake manifold gasket to block the passage off (1967-'69 448 8475 and 1970- up 448 8476). The 290 and 343 had cast ''malleable'' connecting rods which were not exactly performance oriented. For these engines, AMC offered forged connecting rods (number 448 5725). The cranks were made from modular iron, so a special forged steel crankshaft (number 448 5728) was offered, A cam kit was overed that consisted of the cam, pushrods, lifters, double valve springs, seals, keepers, retainers and studs (1967-'69 with standard and four-speed transmission, number 448 6719 and 1970-'71 with standard and four-speed transmission number 448 8413). The 390 and 401 rods and cranks were forged steel from the factory, All AMC pistons were cast-aluminum. Different compression ratios were achieved by the dish on top. The factory recommended use of forged pistons for performance applications but did not include these parts in the Group 19 parts. They recommended contacting J. E., Venolia, etc., for information. A few 360 four-bolt main blocks were also available as part number 448 8937 in 1970. The Group 19 cam kit consisted of the cam, pushrods, lifters, double valve springs, seals, keepers, retainers and studs; as wellas a forged crank and heat blocker manifold gasket. Special performance rocker arms with longer screw-in studs were part of the Group 19 parts. The studs were number 448 7918. The set consisted of keeper nut (448 7987), hold down (448 7988) or rocker arm, keeper nut and hold down under part number 448 7331. A complete set was available as part number 448 7989. Special performance rocker arms with longer screw-in studs were also part of the Group l9 parts. A dual-point ignition was not on AMC'S factory list, so that problem was eliminated with the addition of a Mallory dual-point with tach drive (448 8062) or without (448 8049). The complete high-performance ignition system could be ordered as 448 7900 without the mechanical tachometer drive and as 448 7901 with mechanical drive. A special three-piece distributor cap and external condenser was pad of the package. In addition, a Capacitor Discharge Ignition System was offered under part number 448 5742. A complete high-performance Ignition system could be ordered with or without the mechanical tachometer drive. ln addition to the high-po ignition system, Group 19 also offered a special capacitor discharge system. The first thing that most people do to add horsepower to their car is the addition of headers. Although AMC did not offer them directly, it told AMC owners where to buy the headers and assigned part numbers 448 5727 and 448 5726 to them. Jardine, Doug Thorley and Bellanger were the three California firms the factory recommended. AMC also offered a 8.5-quart deep sump oil pan (448 5741) which had to be ordered directly from two California companies, Aviad Metal or Racing Components. Other special orders in the pads book were a set of heavy duty rear brake drums (448 5736 and 448 5737) or heavy duty front disc brakes with hub and caliper (448 5732 and 448 5733). Rear disc brakes with hub and caliper (448 5734 and 448 5735) were also available. All of these parts could be special ordered from Ronnie Kaplan Engineering. the company that helped build AMCs Trans Am cars. Kaplan also offered a l5x8-inch road wheel, along with American Racing Equipment. Gears were also overed to improve the quarter-mile times. For 1967, part number 320 8551 got a 4.44:1 gear. For 1968, a 3.73 (448 5749), 3.91 (448 5750), 4.10(320 8546), 4.44(326 9854) and 5.00 (448 6587) could help move AMCS a little faster. But what good are new gears if your car just spins? To help with that problem, a positive-locking differential could be ordered as part number 448 6997. Group 19 equipment featured a variety of gears to improve the quarter-mile performance. Although torque links were standard items on AMXs, they were Group 19 parts on the Javelin and V8s such as the SC/Rambler (these could also be used on the Hornet and Gremlin). Special plates were bolted to the frame and part number 448 5582 was used for the Javelin and 5448 5753 for the SC/Rambler. Although torque links were standard items on AMXs, they were Group 19 parts for the Javelin, SC/Rambler and Gremlin [[and Hornet..and therefore, Spirit and Concord]]. Group 19 also offered a couple of non-mechanical parts. A full front fiberglass spoiler was available for the 1968-'70 AMC and Javelin as part number 364 1522. The spoiler mounted by brackets to the lower fender braces and in the center by a bracket. The rear deck lid could sport a rear wing (899 2357). The first version did not have any metal end plates attached to the spoiler. Because of problems with the original spoiler, a second version was produced. The Group 19 part and the spoiler used on the 100 Trans Am Javelins produced were made of fiberglass and had a metal end plate attached to each end of the spoiler. The spoiler rode between two metal ''stands'' that attached to the deck-lid. The Group 19 spoiler had two holes drilled in the bracket so the spoiler could ride in either location. Group 19 also offered a couple some non-mechanical parts, like a full front fiberglass spoiler and an adjustable rear wing. Two other spoilers were offered on AMXs and Javelins but they were not Group 19 parts. A stainless steel front spoiler (899 2553) was available on 1968-'70 AMXS and Javelins as an accessory. The Mark Donohue spoiler was used on 1970 Javelins only and was a regular part. A roof spoiler was also available on the 1969-'70 Javelin only as a regular part. There was no great mystery about the Group 19 parts, but they have gotten very difficult to find through the years. The spoilers are available in reproduction, but the other parts are "look until you find them" items. Group 19 parts could only be ordered from the dealer and could not be special-ordered on a car directly from the factory. Some of the parts caused minor problems, like not being able to close the hood on your car when it had an R4B and stock air cleaner, no air cleaner available with the Cross Ram and headers that hung too low. But, with the addition of these parts, at least AMC let people know that there was an alternative to Grandma's Rambler!

Article by Colin Hillyard below

Hi Bob,
Just thought i'd send you an e-mail regarding some of the info you show on the Group 19 Mallory dual point ignition kits. I've been doing a lot of digging lately as i'm restoring a '70 AMX and I am going for a bit of a 'day 2' feel - torq thrust wheels and some period speed parts in the engine bay. Long story short, I'm going the mallory route for distributor and coil.
 
About a year ago, a guy had a complete 448 7901 (with mechanical tach drive) for sale on e-bay ($1500 and no bids). Best thing was, he included really good images of all the items included. The distributor, 'coil' (its labeled as a 'transformer') and the street/strip switch are all identified as 'Rev-Pol Mark II' items and the dist tag,coil tag and street/strip faceplate are blue. The mallory part numbers are:
 
Distributor - ZC564AM (with mech tach drive) - I don't have the non-tach drive part number but the 3 digits would be different as that was how Mallory identified the different castings. ZC makes it a vacuum advance model - which it was, and the parts book diagram shows it that way as well. Mallory used YC on models with no vacuum advance. I was kinds surprised that AMC went the ZC way as 'no vaccum advance' was usually the way racers would go.
 
Distributor Cap - 4001 - was the part number for the complete 3 piece cap assembly. You can find these on e-bay (NOS for 'stupid' money!) and i'm sure at swap meets. There is a more traditional style of cap available for ZC's and YC's - I don't know if Mallory ever offered it - but Napa Echlin shows the MA5 (vented) and MA9 (non-vented) but i think they are starting to get a bit harder to find - i just ordered one of each and they were the last ones in the US warehouse.
 
Transformer (coil) - 28675A - so it has an added letter 'A' and it is identified as a transformer, not as a coil. So technically, it wasn't a Voltmaster, even though the case is identical. The case got a lot of use, I've got a copy of a Mallory bulletin from the mid-fifties that shows it as a Magspark Transformer and near the end of it's use there was even an 'Electronic' version.
 
Street/Strip Switch - 28700 - from what i have read, when you switched to 'strip', it would bypass the ballast resistor and supply full juice to the distributor. They also said not to use it all the time as it would fry the points.
 
Ballast Resistor - 700 - this is the new Mallory part number, i don't know if it is exactly the same but sure looks to be.
 
Condenser - 25010 - this is the original brass case one that isn't produced anymore.
 
 
To add to the confusion the 'Double-Life' distributor is basically a twin of the Rev-Pol, simply put, it's basically the way it's wired that makes it different. They both have dual points that operate on a 4 lobe cam in the distributor (thus the name 'double-life as the points only worked half the amount versus single points).
 
I've managed to find a used AMC Double-Life YC531HP (non-mech tach drive, no vacuum advance) that is in reasonable shape. To cover off replacement parts i bought a complete NOS big block Buick Double Life for $99 - everything except housing/shaft interchange. I really like the look of these vintage pieces, though i will more than likely convert it using an Ignitor II as that will work with the Voltmaster coil.
 
Hope this is of some help.
 
Cheers,
Colin Hillyard

3 comments:

fredericksburglavender.1colony.com said...

AMC's Rambler V8 engine has much unexplored potential for a variety of reasons. AMC -did- produce an aluminum Rambler V8 block (rumored to be for NASCAR...) Paul Dwyer has the only known AMC made Rambler V8 engine I know of, as described in a vintage issue of 'Rambler Reader'. Otherwise, AMC offered arguably better transmissions in Ramblers than the competition, whereas the non-Chevy GM fleet had the slush box hydromatic until '65 (no torque converter!) Ford offered no overdrive manuals, nor Chysler? Only Studebaker offered the BW T# five speeds like AMC but no Twin Stick shifter. Actually, AMC's '56-'67 Rambler V8 was designed for all around performance having a non emissions 'high swirl' combustion chamber, but the '66-up AMC V8 design was forced to include an emissions type combustion chamber because of upcoming Federal emission laws. Wally Booth/Maskin/Kanners modified AMC V8 heads to have an 'open combustion chamber' in order to compete with the competition's semi hemi designs such as the Chrysler Hemi/Ford 429 & Chevy 'Porcupine' (but Chevy's 358/409 was truly a dud for it's combustion chamber design!)

eddie stakes said...

google 'AMC group 19' for a heavily illustrated file off my site at www.planethoustonamx.com it includes ALL early-late photos

Anonymous said...

I am researching a 69'. ,390 elderblock dual quad intake part # am4486228 ,carbs and linkage it was on the sc/ rambler he has owned since the 70's its for sale, 1969, 390 superstock amx dual quad intake, I'm in wash state anyone has any interest or info olsontodd787@yahoo.com